JoelR

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This is not a suggestion nor a bug report, but an off-topic observation on your most recent statement on the IPS forums:

https://invisionpower.com/forums/topic/429326-ibeconomy/?do=findComment&comment=2636520

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But the truth is that the 3rd party development culture for the IPS platform is not very collaborative and has generally resisted what I've tried to do.

I've made my contribution. Its there for anybody who wants to use it.

IPS as a company isn't very good at community-building, and the third-party developers aren't very good at community-building.  But that doesn't mean the community itself doesn't need or want the kind of leadership in collaboration that your apps provide.

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I think that most of the IPS user community has given very positive feedback in that regard. The money they have spent I believe reflects that also. Its fun and satisfying to build products that fill many needs. 

Its the developer community and the shortcomings of the IPS marketplace that have been the biggest letdown. I see developers get requests from users to add rules to their app and the developer flat out refuse. I see developers release a new app and struggle with a slew of feature requests that could all be addressed in one swoop by writing one or two rules definitions. Then I see the rules application itself get buried in the marketplace by a mass of single function plugins that could otherwise be accomplished for free with a rule or two.

Then I see people asking for developers to create something that already exists, but they dont even know it because of the aforementioned "watering down" of the marketplace and the lack of concern by IPS to improve discovery for end users.

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49 minutes ago, Kevin Carwile said:

I think that most of the IPS user community has given very positive feedback in that regard. The money they have spent I believe reflects that also. Its fun and satisfying to build products that fill many needs. 

No one has created such a fundamental utility app before, so it's an entire paradigm of thinking that needs to shift.  But you're like the first crack in the sea wall, so the change in perspective and attitude will only be the smallest trickle in the beginning.  IPS clients have honestly never been presented with something like this before, and we've been teethed on turnkey plugins and apps that do everything for us.  The Rules app is, at least to me, the greatest utility application for IPS 4 and it's just a matter of time before other developers come around to its widespread acceptance.

But it could be awhile :).

In the meantime, I encourage you to keep an open and collaborative approach to other devs.  

The long-game is in your favor.

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I'll second these last two posts from a n00b client perspective.  I've asked several "how about/can we do X?" in the Invision forums which were never answered, but I now realise that these issues could be addressed with Rules and/or Points Economy (had I known about these apps at the time).  I think that at least several of @Kevin Carwile's apps should be put in a permanent leadership position in the Marketplace precisely because of the paradigm-shift they bring in, but to which not everyone has responded (yet).  I don't think that IPS realises that apps like Collabs, Rules, Points etc. (not to mention some of the other talented developers out there, mea culpa) are a pretty big part of what puts IPB ahead of pretty much everything I've seen...whether it's currently realized or not.

This is why although I was really enthusiastic about Clubs when it was first announced, it was in fact what made me take a closer look at Collabs and ultimately purchase it.  I am still glad that Clubs is being implemented and will likely use it for something, but Collabs is an example of "already done, and better."

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There's definitely a steep learning curve with Automation Rules that I think will naturally turn off users who can't handle anything more than a 'plug-n-play' approach.  But in the long run, I do believe in the value of the all-purpose utility of Automation Rules.  

There's also a lack of discovery in the Marketplace, but I think the only way to overcome that is by constantly promoting Automation Rules.  And unless you have a full-time marketer, that's probably going to be kind of tough.  

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I was ecstatic to find this in the marketplace. I came from using WoltLab and the community bot plugin which does similar functions as automation rules does. This is like the "Swiss Army Knife" for IPS. Granted there is a learning curve, but once you start to work with it - it is awesome to use.

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